The future of skin longevity
Taken any selfies lately?
Dermatologist Zakia Rahman studies both the science of healthy skin and the effects of the exponential increase in skin images on self-esteem. As a result, skin health is linked to mental health, she says. It’s not about vanity, it’s about vitality, Rahman tells host Russ Altman on this episode of Stanford Engineering’s The Future of Everything podcast.
Transcript
[00:00:00] Zakia Rahman: Certainly this expansion of digital technologies has really affected how we view each other and ourselves. Um, it's postulated that people put about three point two billion still images online every single day. So that's about one point one trillion in a year, and it's going to go up to two trillion by the end of 2030.
[00:00:26] Russ Altman: This is Stanford Engineering's The Future of Everything, and I'm your host, Russ Altman. If you enjoy The Future of Everything, please hit follow in the app that you're listening to right now. This will guarantee that you never miss an episode.
[00:00:37] Today, Professor Zakia Rahman from Stanford University will tell us about how we can take care of our skin, how we are looking at ourselves more than ever, thanks to social media and selfies, and how we can keep ourselves looking good and healthy. It's the future of skin care.
[00:00:55] Before we get started, please remember to follow The Future of Everything on whatever app you're listening to, to make sure that you get access to all of our episodes and never miss the future of anything.
[00:01:13] Whether we like it or not, we are continually seeing images of ourselves and others in social media and in mirrors. Now, we've had mirrors for hundreds of years, but social media is relatively new. And many of us are exposed to images of ourselves much more frequently than we were even ten, twenty, thirty years ago.
[00:01:32] That means that we're looking at ourselves and we're evaluating, do I like how I look? Am I too tan? Am I too pale? All of these things have deep cultural relevance because there are these icons of what you're supposed to look like. Some of us may be more susceptible to those than others.
[00:01:49] In addition, if we see things we don't like, the toolbox for dermatologists to change how we look with skin protection, laser therapies, is growing. What do we do in the midst of all of these opportunities and all of these concerns about our skin, our skin health, and our skin cosmetics?
[00:02:08] Well, Zakia Rahman is a professor of dermatology at Stanford University. She's an expert on dermatology, ethnic differences of dermatology, laser therapy for dermatologic issues, and general skin protection and sun exposure.
[00:02:24] Zakia, you're an expert dermatologist, and one of the things you've talked about a lot is the um, emergence of digital technologies. And so it, I think it means that we're all looking at our faces and other people's faces and bodies all the time and that has implications for you as a dermatologist. I found that fascinating. Could you expand on how this gets on your radar and why digital technologies and cell phones are actually impacting the practice of dermatology?
[00:02:52] Zakia Rahman: I love that question, and I think that certainly as a dermatologist, I see this in my everyday practice. So, being at Stanford, I can't tell you how many requests I get from people who are in medical school who are interested in dermatology. But now their requests are getting younger and younger.
[00:03:07] I remember last year I got a request from somebody whose granddaughter in middle school wanted to be a dermatologist when they grow up. Um, and I thought, at that time, how do you even know what you want to be when you grow up? But I think that certainly this expansion of digital technologies has really affected how we view each other and ourselves. Um, it's postulated that people put about three point two billion still images online every single day. So that's about one point one trillion in a year, and it's going to go up to two trillion by the end of 2030.
[00:03:40] Russ Altman: Okay, so what I'm hearing is that people are aware of this and they might see things in the pictures of themselves, in particular, let's say, that they either don't like or they're worried that their skin won't always be perfect, you know, the way a nine year old has perfect skin, typically.
[00:03:56] So are you finding yourself treating and making prescriptions for people? Like, is this a healthy set of requests? Like, how can I protect my skin so that I age in a healthy way? Or are you detecting that there's some problems there?
[00:04:09] Zakia Rahman: Yeah, I think both. I think one is certainly what I do as a laser dermatologist, is that I help people look their best. And I think so often and for so long, we kind of looked down on people who wanted to look their best. But I think with these digital trends and longevity trends, I think there's nothing wrong with people wanting to look their best. Um, and I think what I, my tagline is, it's not about vanity, it's about vitality.
[00:04:35] And when I talk to patients about that, they definitely feel more comfortable because sometimes they feel a little ashamed coming in asking for procedures or something to look their best. But I think our skin is the most imaged organ and it's the one that conveys vitality to others and to ourselves.
[00:04:52] But of course, there are some negative consequences, particularly in young people, uh, particularly young girls. So, that's really significant and we see these effects on them for their self-esteem, depression, eating disorders.
[00:05:05] Russ Altman: And you mentioned your expertise, and I wanted to get to that, and since you mentioned it, in using lasers for therapeutics. And I think we'll go back to these big issues about skin health and sun exposure. But let's talk a little bit about the role of lasers in dermatology because I learned a lot just in preparing for our conversation in the variety of ways that laser technology can address kind of skin issues. Can you give us kind of a, and I think a lot of people might who haven't had this kind of treatment, might be very surprised. Because, you know, we think of lasers as they're hot things they burn, like, why would you be putting that on your skin? So can you just take us through how lasers are kind of revolutionizing certain parts of dermatology?
[00:05:45] Zakia Rahman: Absolutely. Um, so like, let's take a little step back and look at that electromagnetic spectrum, right? So we look at like short wavelengths of light, like X-rays and gamma rays and ultraviolet. Those have really negative health consequences. But most of them are filtered from our ozone and our environment. And then you look at far infrared light. But in the middle is kind of where we use lasers and light-based technology for positive effects. So you have visible and then you have the far infrared or near infrared range.
[00:06:17] Russ Altman: Okay.
[00:06:17] Zakia Rahman: Um, and there's this great concept called the Arndt-Schultz law. And this is often used in homeopathy, but it applies to lasers. And it says at really high levels you kill and at moderate levels you damage and at low levels you actually stimulate biological functions. So often when we use laser and light-based technologies in our office, we're kind of in that moderate. We use lasers for very precise, controlled tissue damage to exactly the target we want, say a blood vessel or some pigment. And then the wound healing process causes new skin to be formed.
[00:06:52] Um, but we also use light-based technologies at really low levels. Like with red light, which I think is really popular now, and that's in that stimulation of biological function.
[00:07:01] Russ Altman: Okay. So this is really exciting. So is it the case, so you mentioned a couple of things you mentioned. I think you mentioned pigment and blood vessels. And so I'm assuming that perhaps somebody has something on their skin that they don't like. It's a blood vessel that's very obvious or some, uh, a mole or some kind of, uh, pigmentation.
[00:07:17] Is it that you pick, do you have special wavelengths of the laser that are good for these different things? Or is it generally the same kind of treatment, but just where you point it as different?
[00:07:28] Zakia Rahman: Yeah, it's usually the wavelength of light. So there's this concept when we're talking about a blood vessel or pigment, there are these things called chromophores. So a wavelength of laser light will target certain chromophores. So we know certain wavelengths target pigment or melanin. Others target hemoglobin. And actually oxyhemoglobin and hemoglobin have different wavelengths that they attract. And that's kind of how our smartphone or smartwatches detect our oxygen.
[00:07:55] Russ Altman: Right, right.
[00:07:56] Zakia Rahman: The difference of the absorption spectra between oxyhemoglobin and hemoglobin.
[00:08:01] Russ Altman: And that's, just for people who don't follow, if I'm getting at. That's the difference between the blood that's in the arteries and the blood that's in the veins. And so you can distinguish them.
[00:08:10] Zakia Rahman: Exactly. Yeah, how much oxygen we have, which is like really critical if it goes down. Then we can't supply oxygen to our brain and other vital organs. Um, so, and then water is also a chromophore. So what we can do is very, very precisely target one thing and spare the surrounding tissue. When we go back and talk about skin cancer, it turns out the chromophore for ultraviolet light targets our DNA. Um, so we know specifically how ultraviolet light damages our DNA and causes cancer and premature aging as well.
[00:08:44] Russ Altman: Are lasers used at all in the treatment of skin cancer, I, um, or not?
[00:08:49] Zakia Rahman: Absolutely.
[00:08:50] Russ Altman: They are.
[00:08:51] Zakia Rahman: Yeah, so a lot of lasers have FDA clearance, which is the pathway that the FDA goes through with devices. So, you know, there's a, the FDA looks at drugs and devices and so lasers are devices. And so, um, the pathway is usually a clearance pathway. And so there are a lot of them that are actually FDA cleared for precancers or actinic keratoses. So we use them routinely in our practice for pre cancers and also certain types of skin cancer.
[00:09:15] Russ Altman: So, uh, so this is great. So nobody should really be surprised if their dermatologist recommends that a laser might be useful. Because it sounds like it's an incredibly powerful tool that you can use across the spectrum of kind of skin, issues. Um, and then this is your expertise. And do all dermatologists do this, or is this become a specialty within dermatology?
[00:09:39] Zakia Rahman: It's definitely a specialty within dermatology, but in order to become a board-certified dermatologist, also to become a board-certified plastic surgeon and an oculoplastic surgeon, you have to have this training. So we have twenty-five residents at the Stanford Dermatology Department. Um, and so we specifically train them on this, because it's required for board certification.
[00:10:02] So these group of people are really the experts in this. And then there are people like myself who love lasers and it becomes my area of passion.
[00:10:11] Russ Altman: The laser professor of dermatology. Yes. Okay. So that was great. And thank you for that background because now we, uh, it really is quite an exciting kind of technology. You did mention skin cancer. We talked a little bit about laser treatments. Um, let's go right to the issue. How are we doing? We being, I guess, like, America, United States, maybe the world. Um, and by the way, I know that you study the effects of skin and sun exposure in multiple different ethnic groups and there's differences.
[00:10:38] So I'd like to get there. So how are we doing on skin cancer? Um, uh, you know, many of us grew up at a time where we just went out in the summer and we didn't apply anything. And I can remember peeling blistering burns as a kid. And then I read about, as I went to medical school, I read, oh, this wasn't good. Um, have we made progress? Um, and what are the current issues in prevention of skin cancer?
[00:11:02] Zakia Rahman: Yeah, we, uh, we've made some progress, but we haven't in other areas. So we know skin cancer is actually the most common type of cancer. Um, and about two people die every hour from skin cancer. So it's, you know, we're not doing that great. We can definitely do better. And there's some environmental effects. So we know skin cancer rates are really high in Australia. Um, and they're, one of the reasons is, um, is that their ozone layer thinned.
[00:11:28] And so actually the Nobel prize in 1995 were two chemists who looked at the ozone and the ozone layer. Um, and so when we don't have those protections, then shorter wavelengths of light, like ultraviolet light, see, penetrate, and actually can cause a lot of damage. So we're not doing great. But I think we have the technology, and we have the wherewithal to really, um, you know, get, uh, ahead of the game if we make a few changes. Uh, and I think some of those are regulatory changes, too, that need to be made.
[00:11:58] Russ Altman: Now, is it really, for, with respect to prevention of skin cancer, and those statistics that you just cited are quite, I think you're right, that, that is not very reassuring. I don't think we're doing that great. Um, is it all about sun protection, or is it mostly about sun protection, and how are we doing there? Is our understanding of how to protect, who should protect like the most aggressively? Is that all very clear or are we still learning?
[00:12:21] Zakia Rahman: I think we're still learning. And certainly in the dermatology community, there's a lot of debate about this. But I think, uh, questioning our assumptions is really what, you know, when you're questioning your assumptions that you're getting someplace where you're going to find new things and discover. So I think it's fine to do that.
[00:12:37] Russ Altman: Yes.
[00:12:38] Zakia Rahman: So, uh, yeah, I think that, you know, we want, we're questioning a lot of assumptions. And I think preventive care and prevention is kind of like the best way to really treat anything. And it's actually the least costly. So by the time someone gets a skin cancer and gets it treated, we know the cost and the morbidity associated with it is really high.
[00:12:57] So if you can prevent it, that's great. Now I hear from a lot of people like you, I didn't, we didn't know about sunscreen when I was growing up. But it turns out that even now, even though as much as we know, there's still a lot of social media trends and a lot of, uh, young people who still are going out and getting sun exposure.
[00:13:15] Now I'm not anti-sun. I love the sun. I love being in California and, uh, I definitely love being outdoors and there'd be no life on earth without the sun. So I'm not saying that's bad, um, but it's just doing it in a way that is safe.
[00:13:29] Russ Altman: Yeah. So, um, I think people would be interested in some of these guidelines. So for example, like, if I'm wearing a hat or if I'm wearing a shirt, am I fine or do I need to do a little bit more work to make sure that that hat or that shirt is protecting me if I care about protection?
[00:13:46] Zakia Rahman: I think that's a great question. So, like, I go to the demographics, like, what is the data showing us about skin cancer that's different between men and women? And what side of the face? And actually in the 80s, it was shown that people are more likely to get skin cancer on the left side of their face. And particularly for men, including melanoma. And so it turns out that, uh, windshields in the U.S. are required to have UVA protection. And the way they have it is there's not like a UVA film. But, um, it, Ford, I think in the early 1900s adopted this.
[00:14:17] Russ Altman: Wow.
[00:14:18] Zakia Rahman: So when you get into an accident, you don't want all of that glass to shatter into pieces. And so what they do is they have two pieces of glass and a lamination in the middle. And so that lamination from the index of refraction, the UVA light gets blocked.
[00:14:32] Russ Altman: So it's kind of a bonus. They kind of didn't do it on purpose, but we all benefited.
[00:14:36] Zakia Rahman: Exactly. And we see that effect where on the side mirrors, we don't have that. So ultraviolet light A goes in through windows.
[00:14:45] So people who are working at home or an office, there's this beautiful image in one of our dermatology texts of a woman who worked next to a window for forty years. And she looks like different people on one side of her face as opposed to the other side of the face.
[00:14:59] Russ Altman: Wow. So this is the, um, like you're driving down the road and the sun is coming in from the other side, that matters and we should pay attention to that.
[00:15:07] Zakia Rahman: Absolutely. And so I often will give like tint letters to my patients who have not only a history of skin cancer, but they have pigmented disorders.
[00:15:16] So a lot of people as we were seeing the demographics in the U.S. change is that, um, certainly that can cause skin cancer, but also increase pigmentation.
[00:15:24] Russ Altman: And so what's a skin letter? I'm sorry. I just want to make sure I understand.
[00:15:28] Zakia Rahman: It's a letter that basically, um, they can present if they have tint
[00:15:32] Russ Altman: Ahh.
[00:15:32] Zakia Rahman: In their windshield saying, okay, this is the reason why. Uh, because there are specific laws in each state about how much tinting they can have. Um, because certainly you don't want to look like a criminal trying to hide.
[00:15:43] Russ Altman: I gotcha. I gotcha.
[00:15:44] Zakia Rahman: Yeah.
[00:15:44] Russ Altman: So this is when you're stopped by the police, uh, Dr. Rahman can give you a letter that says, no, this is, I'm not a well, if I am a criminal, I also have skin problems.
[00:15:56] Okay. Oh, okay. So, and what about, uh, is, or like, is clothes, are clothes protective in general, or do I have to check? So I have, I must admit. I have purchased shirts that are advertised for like SPF 50, like for going to the beach. And then my um, my more, my family members who are a little bit more skeptical say, Dad, do you know, they happen to be my children. Dad, do you know if that actually is any more SPF than you would get from a normal shirt? And I actually don't. So should we be paying attention to the SPF ratings of our clothes?
[00:16:30] Zakia Rahman: Yeah, absolutely. So for when it comes to clothing and physical protection, there's something called UPF, which is ultra light, ultraviolet light protective factor. So it's kind of like the clothing version of it.
[00:16:41] Russ Altman: Okay.
[00:16:41] Zakia Rahman: Now you don't, everything doesn't have to be labeled as that. If you're wearing a denim shirt or a wool shirt, like that's going to block out the light. So that's fine.
[00:16:50] Russ Altman: Yes.
[00:16:50] Zakia Rahman: But, um, there are other ones that are specifically tested with UPF.
[00:16:54] Russ Altman: Okay.
[00:16:54] Zakia Rahman: Um, and it does. And I'm not saying go out and buy a whole new wardrobe. Just have a few things, like for example, a UPF shirt that you can put on.
[00:17:03] Russ Altman: Yep.
[00:17:03] Zakia Rahman: Um, when you're driving. I actually discovered in Japan a few years ago, driving gloves, and I love wearing my driving gloves everywhere. Um, and you know, obviously it's not only for vanity, but it's also for vitality.
[00:17:15] Russ Altman: And grip, I'm sure it helps with the grip on the. Okay, that's kind of fun. Okay. So now I'm, imagining I'm going to get some Italian gloves, I'm going to get a little hat. It's going to really, I'll get a scarf. Um, okay, so we do have to
[00:17:28] Zakia Rahman: A wide brim hat, though.
[00:17:29] Russ Altman: So baseball hats don't do it.
[00:17:31] Zakia Rahman: No. And it's interesting. So men are more likely to get skin cancer on their lips and their ears than women are because we tend to have hairstyles that cover, exactly. And then we tend to wear products on our lips that actually can protect if they have some pigment in them.
[00:17:47] So baseball caps look great, but they're just not going to protect you. So there's a couple of options. You could grow your hair longer. That would cover, that might look cool. Or a wide brim hat.
[00:17:58] Russ Altman: This is the Future of Everything with Russ Altman. We'll have more with Zakia Rahman next.
[00:18:13] Welcome back to The Future of Everything. I'm Russ Altman. I'm speaking with Professor Zakia Rahman from Stanford University.
[00:18:18] In the last segment, we had a great discussion about how lasers can be therapeutically useful. Some of the issues of protecting yourself from sun damage. And also the issues of increased exposure to your own face through social media and selfies and what that's doing to people.
[00:18:35] In this next segment, we want to talk about ethnic differences and demographic differences in skin health. Even in cultural expectations of what the ideal skin should look like. We'll also talk about red-light, red-light masks, and whether they're based on good science or not. It turns out that there are, and you might want to take a run in the sunset.
[00:18:56] In this section, Zakia, I wanted to ask you about, because I know this is an area of specific interest, ethnic differences in the importance of skin and how the skin deals with sun and aging. So, where are we? I know this is an area of expertise for you. What is our understanding of the differences across different demographies?
[00:19:15] Zakia Rahman: Um, so in the 1970s, these two scientists actually partnered at NASA and they looked at indigenous skin color. And what they found is this link to ultraviolet light and vitamin D. Um, but of course with mass migration, um, like everything has changed.
[00:19:30] And I think the U.S. is one of those countries that again, it's like the melting pot. So we see the diversity in our population is really increasing. Um, we see Asian Americans and Hispanic Americans really going up, and then whites will become a minority of the population.
[00:19:47] So it's really important, particularly as dermatologists, to understand how skin varies. And I think a lot of that variance is melanin. Um, and one of the great things is that people who have more pigment and melanin in their skin actually get that protection from, uh, sun related skin cancer. But also, um, from premature aging. Uh, but that patient population also gets a lot more, um, pigment related skin, uh, concerns. And so they will often come and see me for that.
[00:20:17] Russ Altman: So it's a double edged sword. They get protection from sun damage, but they may be at increased risk for other pigmentation issues.
[00:20:24] Zakia Rahman: Yes, and I don't want to miss out on the fact that, um, even Hispanics and African Americans, they certainly can get skin cancer, Asians. And it turns out that, um, melanoma of the palms and soles is actually the same incidence no matter what race someone is and that's more related to trauma. And so, um, and so a lot of our skin cancer prevention and screening, um, really incorporates a lot of people. So just because you have pigment in your skin doesn't mean you can't get skin cancer. You do have protection against certain types of skin cancer, but not those on the palms and soles.
[00:20:57] Russ Altman: Oh, on this issue, um, I wanted to ask, this is, I've always wondered about this. So obviously, um, as a white person, I have an ability to tan. I tan when I'm out in the sun. And I, and that seems to be a natural reaction to the sun exposure. Is that providing me protection over in the summer? And like a base tan is kind of okay and I shouldn't worry about it. Or is that to you as a dermatologist, just a sign that I'm not using enough sun protection?
[00:21:25] Zakia Rahman: So that's kind of a hotly debated topic. It's true that ultraviolet light causes the melanin that we already have to oxidize. So ultraviolet light A does that. And so we get that immediate darkening and then ultraviolet light B causes those melanocytes that make pigment to dendritize, uh, to like make connections with keratinocytes and they produce more melanin. And we know that melanin is like an umbrella on a rainy day. It does protect you, but there's sort of other ways that you could protect your skin.
[00:21:54] Now, um, people love the sun and one of the reasons is it's actually, our skin is an endocrine organ, so it doesn't just make vitamin D. It also makes endorphins.
[00:22:04] So that's why it feels so good to be outside, right? We co evolved, like we wouldn't evolve if,
[00:22:10] Russ Altman: Oh, I didn't know that. That's problematic, knowing that I can get it.
[00:22:15] Zakia Rahman: Yeah, well, it's addicting, of course. It feels great.
[00:22:17] Russ Altman: Okay.
[00:22:17] Zakia Rahman: And there's a reason it does. Like that's, you know, it's necessary for our survival. So again, you don't have to live in a cave, but probably there's other ways, um, to get that protection. If you like to look tan, which a lot of people do, you can actually do fake tanning.
[00:22:33] So there's spray tans and topical dihydroxyacetone, which is a chemical that cross links proteins. And that actually gives you a little bit of ultraviolet light protection and makes you look tanned.
[00:22:44] Russ Altman: So in a summertime, if I'm doing a good job protecting myself, I'm set. Thank you for doing this. I'm really interested. And this is a little bit off of our topic. But if I do a good job with my skin protection, with sunscreen and whatnot, will I not tan at all? Will there be baseline tan, even with appropriate protection? I'm trying to figure out if like, if I should use tanning as a indicator that I'm not doing a good enough job. Or if that will happen, even with a good job of sun protection?
[00:23:14] Zakia Rahman: You may still, particularly because of the sunscreens that are approved now in the U.S. Our regulations actually are, have like a, uh, have slowed down the progress of sunscreens that are available in the European Union and Japan and South Korea. So we don't have sunscreens here that are really good with UVA protection.
[00:23:34] So even with that, you might get a little bit of a tan. But certainly a burn or a blistering sunburn is bad. But you may still get a slight tan.
[00:23:43] Russ Altman: Okay. So back to what we wanted to talk about is as part of your interest in ethnicity, ethnic differences and demographics. I know that you've been looking at aesthetics and cultural implications and it sounds fascinating. So can you tell me about that?
[00:23:57] Zakia Rahman: Yeah. So, um, Stanford has a Center on Longevity that's headed up by Laura Carstensen, who's a psychologist. And, uh, she and I met like a lot of us do at Stanford. And I started chatting about what I do, which is I remove skin cancer in my veteran population, centenarians and near centenarians.
[00:24:15] And then I also help people look their best with lasers and other energy-based devices. And really we understood kind of a, we had a meeting of the minds because we realized all of this goes to longevity. Which is we were living the longest we have since our homosapien ancestors walked the earth three hundred thousand years ago.
[00:24:35] And we want people to really be vital and we want them to contribute to society and we want them to be healthy as long as possible. And so we're looking at how we do that, how it is that people are motivated to look their best. Are they willing to do things for their health because of how they look.
[00:24:54] And so if we can promote healthy behaviors, um, and that allow people to look their best and are motivated by how they look, then I think it's a win win.
[00:25:03] Russ Altman: Yes. Have you seen any cultural practices, either in the west or in any culture, where they actually, the things that they value in terms of their looks are actually not the most healthy? Or do the healthy habits tend to correlate with the aesthetics?
[00:25:19] Zakia Rahman: Yeah, certainly we do. Um, but I like to focus kind of on the positive. So my colleague, Anne Chang, and I have a skin, a Stanford Skin Longevity Program. And um, so we looked at the psychology data and there's a really elegant study in 2014 that was published in social psychology and it took images and it made them more melanized or more pigmented or tan, and then it made them more carotenoid.
[00:25:43] So, you know, beta carotene makes us really healthy and it's actually a retinoid, which, you know, we love putting retinoids on our surface of our skin. And so they had people just look at the pictures and rate their attractiveness and they found the carotenoid faces looked more attractive.
[00:25:57] So it turns out all of these signals that we're sending subconsciously, the healthy signals are really correlated with attractive signals.
[00:26:05] Russ Altman: So that's good news. That's good news.
[00:26:07] Zakia Rahman: Yes.
[00:26:08] Russ Altman: We can be pleased with. Well, the final thing I want to ask you about is a red light. You, um, talk a little, uh, in your work, you've looked at red light masks, I'm sure you see it clinically. What is the point of red-light masks? 'Cause they, they were really not on my radar. And what's the science underlying their potential benefit?
[00:26:25] Zakia Rahman: It's so funny to see things that we've researched and worked on for many years become popular because of social media trends. And I think red light masks have. And we talked a little bit about this idea of selective photothermolysis or what are the chromophores, right? DNA or melanin or pigment. And it turns out in our mitochondria, which are like the powerhouse of our cells, they give all of our cells energy. Um, cytochrome C oxidase, which is the enzyme that makes ATP, the energy.
[00:26:53] That chromophore for that is red and near infrared light. And if you use it at very low levels, you actually stimulate that function and you cause increased energy production. And I'm going to share with you an article from 2015, that's an alternate theory of evolution that said that as our ancestors became less hairy in Sub Saharan Africa, the red and near infrared light actually gave them more energy and allowed their brains to grow.
[00:27:19] Russ Altman: So there was a selective advantage to losing the hair because of the ability to absorb good wavelengths of light.
[00:27:27] Zakia Rahman: Yeah, we're like plants. Light gives us more energy.
[00:27:30] Russ Altman: And so is when you're seeing these red light masks and people doing, is it generally safe in your opinion and we're doing this in a responsible way? Or is this going to turn out to be the new, tanning, you know, they have these tanning salons in the 60s and 70s, which were probably not the best for people's health?
[00:27:46] Zakia Rahman: Yeah. Well, there's certainly tanning salons now. So that wavelength is not an ultraviolet light. It's at the other end.
[00:27:52] Russ Altman: Right.
[00:27:52] Zakia Rahman: So it's at the far visible and near infrared light. Um, and then, so I think like looking at ones that are FTE cleared, 'cause a lot of that clearance is on safety. Um, and then certainly not overdoing it. But, um, they, there's a lot of really great data on them, certainly for hair growth, but also, um, for stimulating biological functions in the skin.
[00:28:13] Russ Altman: And these are, are these wavelengths of red light that we can perceive, like this is red, this looks red to a human, is that right?
[00:28:20] Zakia Rahman: Yes, there are some wavelengths that are outside of the visible spectrum, which is about four to eight hundred. So there are some that we don't see, but often when you use those masks, it is red because it is that wavelength.
[00:28:32] Russ Altman: And do we get these benefits from things like a sun, a beautiful sunrise or sunset?
[00:28:37] Zakia Rahman: We do, and especially sunset. I think one of my favorite things to do is to do a little sunset run. Um, and, uh, one is obviously exercise is great for you and I'm getting a little bit of that red light. And so I feel like, okay, well, I'm getting a little bit of benefit too.
[00:28:55] Russ Altman: Thanks to Zakia Rahman. That was the future of skincare.
[00:28:58] Thanks for tuning into this episode. You know, we have more than 250 episodes in the back catalog, and you can get Interesting discussions on the topics of your choice and the future of almost everything.
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